For the record regarding those on both sides of the aisle regarding the new R.E.M. album is that the commentary will continue.
I would argue after listening to this album a couple times is that it would probably not be as much a "Return to Form" or their "Classic Sound" but a band that is breaking with it's fans and moving onto a younger generation or a different generation.
Listening to the band well over 20 years, I am probably coming from this from a different point of view all my own that some of you might understand and appreciate and others will want to spit at the computer screen with.
Truth be known, if I was 16 years old, I might find this new album to be pretty amazing stuff and I say might because being 16 in 1988 was much different than being 16 in 2011.
I had questioned whether to continue this site, these reviews or this commentary with that New York Mets fan commonly known as Matt Marrone. What I am finding with the listening experience has been a clearer understanding of what R.E.M. meant to me, what it means to grow up in this 21st Century world of ours and well, to provide a different voice.
There is no doubt that I have accepted the direction that R.E.M. has chosen to take. They are in a predicament all their own, with their own pressures of having to sell albums, touring, doing promo work.
I was reading a story by one Jim Derogatis about a fake Twitter account @MayorEmanuel. The author of said account outed himself and ended up being one Dan Sinker, a colleage of Jim's at Columbia College here in Chicago. Outside of the fact that I think that Dero got it all wrong, I was bothered by a linked story in the Chicago Tribune that quoted a student of Sinkers who was surprised that her professor ended up being Fake Emanuel.
"I squealed when I found out," said Mirretti, who had Sinker for an introduction to journalism class last semester. "It's so crazy, I can't believe it."
Mirretti said she didn't even know who Emanuel was until she discovered the fake Emanuel posts. She signed up for the feed immediately.
"I would have voted for him just because of that fake Twitter account," she said.
What really bugged me more about this story was how a journalism student in the City of Chicago does not know who Rahm Emanuel is. For those of you that do not know, Rahm Emanuel was just elected the next Mayor of the City of Chicago and if someone studying for a degree in a profession that reports on the news I wonder how she is going to report if she does not know what the news is.
How this relates back to R.E.M. is whether complex subjects are worthwhile to even discuss in a song or have we become so self-absorbed in our little lives not to really realize what is going around us. We are tweeting and Facebooking about Charlie Sheen and working on our Farmville rather than knowing what countries have had revolutions within the past month or two.
And what I see from many fans that have commented to me is that I have not heard 1 single word why this album is good and what it provides to them. It just feels like we are being sold the same line that a certain song sounds like (Insert Album Title Here), but its not the sound that sells me on a particular song.
If Coca Cola changes it's formula do you still buy it because of the brand? Does the "R.E.M." brand currently exhibit excellence? I don't think so.
I have thought that maybe it's also time after this is over to go back and review some of their older material for some proof to this why those songs will be included in the soundtrack of my life.
Comments
Honestly man, it seems to me
Honestly man, it seems to me that you got it your head early on that you did not like early released tracks from CIN, got into a pissing match with others about it, and now you are so dug in you can't change your opinion if you wanted to. It's the hardest thing to do, to admit you are wrong.
I've been that way with bands. In the 80's, I decided I hated U2. When the Joshua Tree came out I stood firm because I was a guy who hated U2 and I couldn't budge. By the time Achtung Baby came out, I changed my mind. Still don't love the pre-JT stuff that much but I like U2. This really seems to be the same thing that has happened to you. You get so entrenched in defending a position that you go out of the way to defend it.
I apologize if I'm wrong but I believe you were the guy who nearly creamed himself when he first heard Hollow Man and went on and on about how great it was. Maybe you didn't want to make the same mistake again (Hollow Man isn't bad but is certainly nothing special) so you took a negative attitude about the new stuff to be safe, got called on it, you defended your opionion and now you are dug in. I have found with R.E.M. records that best way to judge them is after the next record comes out, I really need that distance. While I like the new record, a lot, my opinion could certainly change. In this instant opinion blogging world, everyone feels like they need a definitive opinion right away without letting it breathe, to use a wine analogy.
This is coming from a 42 year old R.E.M. fan by the way who's been a fan since '87. To say they are trying to appeal to a younger generation is kind of a ridiculous statement to me. They have embraced who the are but not in a tired or stale way. This record has all of the elements that make up R.E.M. but the songs are fresh and vibrant. As for the lyrics, Stipe has changed. Do you do anything creatively like you did 30 years ago? His lyric writing is definitely is not as abstract as years ago and maybe isn't as mysterious but he is writing from where his head is at now and that is all you can ask an artist to do. He can still write a great melody though and this record is overflowing with them.
I suggest you take a step back, forget for second that you are "The Blogger Who Hates CIN" and try and listen to it for what it is, A really damn fine R.E.M. Life is short, be happy to have it, there may not be many more.
ANd BTW, I'm NOT saying a negative opinion on this record is not a valid one. But I don't see how as an R.E.M. fan you can have a fully formed opinion on one of their records so soon. Took me 10 listens to fully unlock Murmur.
re: Honestly man, it seems to me
I wish I could say that about this and I hope that I am wrong. Music is not necessarily something that you might get right away, for example, it probably took me a good ten years to like Circus Envy but these types of situations are rare. There has not been much change in my favorites from Accelerate (Hollow Man, Man-Sized Wreath, Horse to Water, Sing for the Submarine) and for example I am still not crazy about Accelerate and Supernatural Superserious.
Lastly, I do not have a fully formed opinion at the same time it's not fleeting which maybe is why I try to describe what the songs feel to me and hear what people have to say about them. You can say the same thing for someone that loves a song. I actually like Everyday is Yours to Win and will be posting about that. This does not say that I will change my mind later on.
Thoughts from across the pond...
Commenting here as well, in addition to on Facebook:
I’m partly gonna quote myself from a comment on Martine’s Facebook wall, in saying that I must have somehow have failed in my R.E.M. fandom, since in contrast to many other hardcore fans I actually find the album pretty great.
Now your first comment might be just that, we don’t (and perhaps shouldn’t?) expect just “pretty great” from R.E.M., and maybe that’s true. But I don’t know why we should expect exceptional, outstanding and amazing every time, every song and every lyric. Certainly not everything they have released previously has been that. I’m not saying that we should have lower standards when judging something from a band we love, but maybe we to at least a certain extent need to judge it on its own merits.
I love music, and I love R.E.M.. But there’s certainly lots of non-R.E.M. music that has touched me much more than any R.E.M. song ever has. Still something about the band drew me into their world almost twenty years ago. That something has over the years sometime let me drift further away from that world, but it has certainly never let go. And even with the latest couple of albums, different part of that something has been around. I guess it’s the same thing this time around – there is something here that appeals to me.
I can certainly deplore that some of the lost non-obviousness and mystery of the band. But does that mean that I have to view the music in the light of those things that might have gone missing along the way? I don’t think so.
As this indicates, I don’t really compare the stuff on this album to earlier efforts. I don’t really see the point in doing so. Still, I find Uberlin beautiful, I do get goose bumps when the harmonies kick in IHT, I want to sing along to Alligator live and I look forward to listening to Blue in a dark lit room sometime. Lyrics? They have actually never been that important an aspect of my love for R.E.M.. Is that a reason why I am not bothered by stuff that bothers you and others? Maybe.
I also don’t really get the argument that “no one has explained what’s so great about it”. First I don’t think it’s really important to be able to put words on why something artistic appeals to me. If I get a reaction from something, then that’s a good thing. I don’t need to be able express in words, to myself or anyone else, why I get a reaction from it. Even if you are to force yourself to put words on such assessment, it’s certainly much easier to put on words on why something does _not_ appeal to me, compared to why it does.
As may be apparent from the above, I also don’t really agree with the view that the reason why you don’t like this album is that you come from a “different point of view of my own that some of you might understand and appreciate”. I have no idea what it was like to be 16 in smalltown US in 1988 and discover R.E.M., but it probably wasn’t much different that being 12 in 1992 and from smalltown Sweden. I don’t think there that much difference in 23 years of fandom compared to 19 years, 1000+ live shows collected compared to 600+, etc. Not meaning to be rude here though, and I may certainly be missing your point… :-S
Having said this, I can maybe agree that it seems the last two albums have appealed more to newer and maybe younger fans. Part of that may have to do with the sound and production, but some of it may also be down to them not having the annoyance over the lost obscurity or mystery, or other changes in the band’s approach to their career, their music, themselves or their fans, distracting them. I guess I try to use that approach myself, and I see no issue with it.
Ok, very unstructured and I might elaborate on this later, it’s an interesting discussion even though I don’t really agree with you…but, there you go. :-)
/David,
Sweden
I agree that many people have
I agree that many people have their heads in the sand. as you put it they are tweeting with charlie and playing their farm games. I agree most people have no clue what is going on in the world around them..only their world. However, I like the new album (only heard once so far& and was at work listening on computer)
I like the album because it seems fun and light. Does all of REM material have to be political? Sometimes with all that is going on in the world and in my own personal life it is nice to hear a fun song instead of something that I really have to think about. Sometimes I want to be lost in songs that bring a smile to my face. I think part of your problem is that finding that REM is changing and not a significant band anymore is that it means your life is changing. You are an adult with all the reponsiblities that come with adulthood and all the mystery of life and REM is over. Lighten up just a little. Give the album a little more time and try to listen with more of open mind instead of this bitterness you seem to feeling. You may find you like the album or you may still hate it.
well....
"I would argue after listening to this album a couple times is that it would probably not be as much a "Return to Form" or their "Classic Sound" but a band that is breaking with it's fans and moving onto a younger generation or a different generation."
Thats a really nice theory of yours, which unfortunately falls flat as most long-time fans seems to love this album. Oh and even critics seems to love it.
Good to have some old farts who've decided not to like it before they even heard a tune to bring some balance though :)
The Final Straw?
"I would argue after listening to this album a couple times is that it would probably not be as much a "Return to Form" or their "Classic Sound" but a band that is breaking with it's fans and moving onto a younger generation or a different generation."
Absolutely. I may care to elaborate my feelings once my 'piss-offness' recedes. It is insulting to be fed on marketing lies. I'll take the shit from Warners (ha, they get paid for it), from friends and colleagues (Ken Stringfellow et al) but not from the band themselves. Unless their capacity to discern shit from shinola has been severely impaired.
It shouldn't be this way, but as a longtime 'fan' I would be utterly embarrassed to listen to 'Walk It Back' or 'Everyday is Yours To Win' again, as I would with 'Beachball' or 'Wanderlust' to name only two... I guess we all stagnate with time.
I wonder how 'Collapse Into Now' will be seen in the future, once the general sycophancy in the fan-forums clears, and the media stops copying and pasting press-releases into their own reviews. Perhaps if R.E.M. "graciously" bows out we will all be more forgiving. At the moment, this one challenges Around The Sun in the amount of duff tracks, and at least I can say I enjoyed ATS for a little while. As per 'Collapse...', it may be the Final Straw indeed.
~J.N.
Everyday is yours to win
The song everyday is yours to win touches me like an REM song hasn't in many years. Stipe sounds like a father figure telling me of the road ahead...sort of a cat stevens moment. That it won't be all great...but its there so enjoy it. Its one of the truest songs I've heard in years. That is one reason why I think this album is not 'good' but great